Comments for Avatar: Condescending Racism or a Story of Transformation and Struggle? at http://thefirecollective.org , comment 1 to 8 out of 8 comments http://thefirecollective.org Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:40:11 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-47 over the last few days i've been reading all these stories and the comments people have been making.why must people read so far into a work of FICTION. an earlier post referenced the skypeople as being Americans, i saw them as people from EARTH, not just Americans but the entire planet. I don't recall the marines being from the U.S. just the fact that they were Marines. You may say well they spoke english, well the movie was made in America, and plenty of countries speak english and have marines(England for example). It really is a shame that this had to turn into a race issue, just because the main character was a white guy. Did you forget that one of the people that aided jake sully was a women of color. Had it not been for her he would have never been able to accomplish what he did - bobby Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:22:20 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-46 Eric, Your last point was the most poignant and I agree with the majority of what you said in a vacuum, however, your quotes posted from the other site actually highlight THE crux of the major cultural issues of the film (and actually address the economics if you read close enough). I've engaged in MANY hours of deconstruction and debate about the film in the last several weeks, and outside of the eye candy, white supremacy (an ethos that may be ironically expressed [marketed] through guilt/savior/tutelage) is undoubtedly the dominant one amongst people of color, who'll admittedly be the major consumers of the film, worldwide. I suggest you talk about these issues with "regular" brown people and women to inform (not necessarily correct) your view so you'll be even more sharp. I both agree and disagree with RoB's statement about paternalism-hardly a substantive comment on my part, but I gotta jet. Denise needs to be a little more clear. Seems like her post is tryna cause insult... Please keep up the dialog if need be. This site seems to be Maoist. Please study the Chinese Revolution from within the framework of whatever theorist/organization you draw, as well as outside sources both progressive and neutral. Talk to folks. - Eddie Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:30:49 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-42 Gee whiz. I really like actual cats. You know - felines. Where these cat people, in this absurd movie, depicted as creatures possessing the traits of actual cats - they'd allow the "White oppressers" to come in, and feed them and house them, and provide them with treats, while the cat people spent the vast majority of their day sleeping in comfy beds, eating everything that comes across their path, and then throwing up what they ate, fighting with each other, and walking all over and destroying everything that their "oppressors" create. Hhhhmmmm....sounds like that would be the story of Detroit. FYI - tel Annalise I''d like to see a movie about White people, where random Darks weren't inserted. Towns and cities, too. - Denise Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:32:21 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-40 I'm fascinated that the racist critiques I've read all see Jake as the savior, when the movie made a point of showing his ultimate failure to save the day in the way he might have in an older film. Avatar does offer a different view. For in the end, Jake's attempt is shown to fail completely, and it is nature itself that rallies the forces needed to overcome the oppressive forces. - Tony Howard Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:21:51 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-39 I watched Avatar last night, and have been thinking about these essays. I still have more reflecting to do, but here are some thoughts from the hip: I think the paternalism in the film is clear, that Jake is the only one capeable of creating a strategy that can defeat the skypeople. As his Navi wife says when jake arrives with the giant flying creature; "I was afraid for me people, but not anymore" Jake as savior seems to be the dominant understanding of the Navi, and with the seeds of the god tree picking him, he is essentially picked by the divine to lead this struggle. While the new cheif is not replaced by Jake, he serves only to translates Jake's winning strategy which is delivered in english. I agree with Eric that the central messages of Avatar are, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist and pro-enviromentalist. But the white supremacist framework of the narrative of Avatar that Annalee Newitz critiques seems to me to be totally accurate, and while subtle, it's dangerous because its so common and perpetuates the idea that it is up to the priveledged to work out all the problems for oppressed people. I think it condones paternalistic attitudes. Also there is a video blog featuring Annalee Newitz, which is really interesting about science fiction race and other goodness: http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/24832 She seems neat. - RoB Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:41:07 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-35 hey Peter, thanks for taking the time to write :) I'm not sure I see Jake Sully as having done that in the film.. If we look carefully at the way that things are played, the Na'vi actually have their own complex systems for determining leadership and who is to lead the Na'vi after the death of their chief, etc. I think Newitz's version of the story of the movie was not exactly what was actually portrayed and more what they were looking for themselves. This is why Jake requested permission to speak from the new leader of the tribe. At a certain point, the Na'vi leadership acknowledged that Jake had a particular role to play in terms of the coming battle against the Skypeople (Americans). He was the only one of them who was familiar with their inside strategies and tactics, and who would be able to formulate a tactical plan for defeating them. He never became their overall leader. Here, I think the analogy to Dr. Bethune also rings true. Bethune was brought to China by the Chinese revolutionaries because he was a doctor, and had some knowledge about how to do health care that they wanted to learn from. Bethune originally came to teach them how to run their health care system, thinking himself more educated than them, but his way of doing things (for example, he insisted on building stationary hospitals which were impossible to the mode of existence of guerrilla warfare) would repeatedly get people killed. The Chinese were patient with him, but would sharply criticize him until he was finally able to listen and learn from them, and was able to take the knowledge he knew of health science and join it to the knowledge and experience of the Chinese themselves. This is how I think we should look at someone like Jake Sully. Surely there are people through the course of revolutions like this, that a revolution would have to incorporate if it was to really win? - eric r Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:30:12 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-34 I happen to have liked Avatar immensely, but I agree with Annalee Newitz - and disagree with you - on one important point. The racist element of the narrative is the assumption that Jake Sully, the messed-up outsider who learns about what's real and important as a result of living with the Na'vi, is of course the person who will end up *leading* them. You cite the example of Dr. Bethune, but the problem with your analogy is that he didn't learn from the Chinese masses and then say "Hey, not only did you win me to communism but now I'm qualified to lead and speak for your revolution!" Or to put it much more simply, a little humility goes a long way. - Peter G Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:14:33 +0100 http://thefirecollective.org/Art-Culture/avatar-condescending-racism-or-a-story-of-transformation-and-struggle.html#comment-33 a few things I liked about the film. the part where the tribe leader called for Jakes backwardsness to be washed away, but in a real method of unity and showing what's correct, as opposed to the capitalist method of seclusion and torture. in vietamn, depite the Rambo slander, addressed this question. Also like the matrixesque shifting between the cold miltary base to the communal areas, but captured antagonisms in capitalist led military life - including how healthcare is treated like a commodity. - moz Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:03:49 +0100